@ sits : I like those gifs!! Keep 'em coming!

@ romes and Mpls Dice : I agree there is something impressive about being the first to achieve something, but for me that still doesn't take away from the fact that LeBron's was a more complete, amazing performance in my opinion.

I mean, as far as I have read, this is only the 2nd 50-10-10 EVER whereas Kobe's points total (whilst very impressive) is only the highest total ever on this court.

I've heard a lot of Laker fans (on another Lakers Forum) complaining that LeBron went out specifically with it in mind to beat Kobe's performance. They say that the game he had is detracted from because of this. Even if it were true that he pre-meditated his attack, I don't see how this can be seen as a blight on his performance. How many players can decide to go and get a 50-10-10? Crazy!

It was interesting how Lebron said he wasn't into individual glory 1 day after Kobe scores 61 points, and then he goes and scores 52 points himself.

Hmmm....me thinks he wants the individual accolades.

romes wrote:
If I'm looking from a fantasy perspective: Lebron's performace much better Kobe's.

But I think Kobe's performance is more memorable because he did it first. It's the highest point total in MSG, that's pretty impressive.

My vote Kobe.
Mpls Dice wrote:
I'm with Romes. Kobe did it first, broke the scoring record, and therefore had the better performance.
Exactly.

mookie wrote:
@ sits : I like those gifs!! Keep 'em coming!

@ romes and Mpls Dice : I agree there is something impressive about being the first to achieve something, but for me that still doesn't take away from the fact that LeBron's was a more complete, amazing performance in my opinion.

I mean, as far as I have read, this is only the 2nd 50-10-10 EVER whereas Kobe's points total (whilst very impressive) is only the highest total ever on this court.

I've heard a lot of Laker fans (on another Lakers Forum) complaining that LeBron went out specifically with it in mind to beat Kobe's performance. They say that the game he had is detracted from because of this. Even if it were true that he pre-meditated his attack, I don't see how this can be seen as a blight on his performance. How many players can decide to go and get a 50-10-10? Crazy!
It never fails to amaze me that the constant comparisons between James/Bryant inevitably start from the LeBron camp (or at least those who are more fans of James than Bryant). First (during the game) he was going to beat Kobe's score, then when it became evident he wouldn't, there had to be another reason as to why his performance had to be 'better'.

Ok, playing devil's advocate - LeBron also played 8 more minutes, shot a worse FG%, & shot more shots for a lower score. Secondly, you have to remember that for the Cleveland LeBrons to win, James HAS to do this. For LA to win, does Kobe need to pull in rebounds? Does he need to dish? Pointedly, no.
No-one here's taking into account the differences between either the positions that the guys play, or the roles on their team that they have too. Simplifying that, LeBron's expected to get boards/dimes, Kobe is not.

Lastly, years down the track, no-one other than a few sad die-hards will remember that LeBron James scored 52, and had assists/boards as a triple double. It will become the answer to a trivia question. But until someone hits 63, Kobe's score is part of the legend of Madison Square Garden.

No matter how hard you try to legitimize it, that's simply fact.

Beaver Patrol wrote:
It was interesting how Lebron said he wasn't into individual glory 1 day after Kobe scores 61 points, and then he goes and scores 52 points himself.

Hmmm....me thinks he wants the individual accolades.
Agreed. And to me, that takes away from it somewhat.
Kobe went out there with a vengeance to remind the detractors of LA (of which - let's face it - there are many) that even despite Bynum's absence, LA are still a force to be reckoned with.
LeBron did out of one-up-manship.

I know which I think is the more pure motive.

Yes, Kobe's performance was the more selfish, but as to who gets the nod for being the more impressive at the Garden over the last week?
Kobe.

Don, you've brought it with malice, and as always you've been very persuasive.

Ok, I have to put one thing out there. People that have known me a while no that I have been a "Kobe hater" in the past. The last couple of years though -- well, really the last year or so -- that opinion has changed a little. He started to get his teammates involved and didn't go out there with the mentality that his team was worthless and that he was el supremo. (The low point in all of that was that carpark tirade that he was stupid enough to get caught on camera, with him slagging off his teammate Bynum... wonder how his attitude has changed now on that).

Anyway, so I guess the thing about Kobe's performance that disappoints me is that he may fall back into that "I'm #1 and y'all don't matter" attitude again. I don't want to see the Kobe that made a fool of himself by trying to jack up countless shots against Jordan in an All-Star game before he was ready.

We know that Kobe is capable of playing a complete game. He's had 16 triple doubles in his career. So, how he can go through a game contributing so little else to his team apart from scoring is beyond me.

Don't get me wrong, I think his game was amazing -- truly amazing and one of the best ever. But I also can appreciate a player that can score a crazy amount and do all of those other things for his team at the same time.

All of that said, Don (aka with malice), you have swayed me to think about the motive aspect a bit more. We do have to remember though, that both players willed their teams onto a win. If LeBron's team had lost, I think my perspective would be a little different...

Beaver Patrol wrote:
It was interesting how Lebron said he wasn't into individual glory 1 day after Kobe scores 61 points, and then he goes and scores 52 points himself.

Hmmm....me thinks he wants the individual accolades.

Like I said, LBJ is retarded.

sits wrote:
Beaver Patrol wrote:
It was interesting how Lebron said he wasn't into individual glory 1 day after Kobe scores 61 points, and then he goes and scores 52 points himself.

Hmmm....me thinks he wants the individual accolades.

Like I said, LBJ is retarded.

Sheesh man, drop the fanboi-dom. Saying stuff like that is offensive on at least 3 levels I can think of just off the top of my head.

Chris Sheridan had an interesting take on it at ESPN.http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-090205

Interesting link.

Sometimes it surprises me how hard it is to come by NBA statistics, going all the way back. If you use basketball-reference.com, they only go back to about 1986-87 for individual games. However, the big guns like ESPN have crazy, tricked out research departments and can come up with gems like this one, which I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere prior to this:

According to ESPN Research, LeBron James is the fifth player to register a triple-double while scoring at least 50 points. Wilt Chamberlain and Elgin Baylor accomplished the feat twice, while James, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Richie Guerin each did it once.

Those guys back in the day had ridiculous numbers some times. And I'm not even referring to Chamberlain's "women per game" average.

with-malice wrote:
Sheesh man, drop the fanboi-dom. Saying stuff like that is offensive on at least 3 levels I can think of just off the top of my head.

Now that Lebron has been discredited with the triple double, it changes everything... clearly the better performance now was from the black mamba

By the way, Lakers @ Cavs this Sunday. Will the Cavs home streak be broken? Will Kobe play the team game or try to out-perform Lebron, and vice-versa. It will be great for the NBA in any event.

My prediction: Lakers by 4

Boofheads wrote:
Now that Lebron has been discredited with the triple double, it changes everything... clearly the better performance now was from the black mamba

HAHAHA! Does it make this whole debate irrelevant? That is the question I was asking here.

Wow... talk about timing, that Cavs v Lakers game! I'll be glued to that one. A couple of big games for the Lakers (Cavs and Boston) straight after the Bynum injury. If they can get through these, they're in a pretty good position to go all the way.

I can just see Kobe willing them to a win in that one too -- to out-do LeBron and to break that home record of theirs. I'll also go for the Lakers by a small margin - say 3.

LeBron, even though it wasn't a triple double.

Aaaaaaand the reasons for that would be... ?
I mean, all historical significance for the game are now gone.

I see your point, Don. However sometimes historical significance is not everything.

To take an extreme example, if Boobie Gibson had managed to get 20 turnovers in that game, it would have been pretty historically significant, but I guess you'd still say that Kobe's game was better...

MVP race is getting pretty interesting... and it's not just a Kobe v LeBron race any more if you listen to most people.

Mr Wade seems to be a contender.